Kahr CW9
 

I have a new CW9 and have 100 rounds through the 200 round breakin shoot.

The thing works well with the exception of failing to lock open after the last shot on 3-4 occasions.

How much of a concern should his be given the numer of rounds through it?

What causes this? There is no hint of a failure to feed, etc.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Does it do this with more than one magazine? If not try another mag, just keep track of which mag causes the problem. The follower on the magazine is what pushes the slide stop up into position when it is empty, a bad follower can cause the problem you are having. Also it can at times be contributed to new gun stiffness and might work it's way out. I won't carry a new gun till I have at least 500 rounds through it.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Mine had some shell ejection problems until 200 rds were fed through it, after which it ran perfectly. I say finish the breakin and see what happens.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Just the one magazine. It is brand new and I have added extra magazines yet. I will get some others and by then will have had 200-300 through it. Thanks.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Kahrs suck, never owned one myself but the ones I have fired have always had problems...

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Interesting. Thanks.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I just got a CW9 myself. One thing I've noticed is that being such a small gun with a light slide, the recoil spring is incredibly stiff. Until the gun is fully broken in and the recoil spring takes a set slide lock failure may happen, especially if you are using target or low power ammunition. This gun is made to work with full power defensive ammunition and with some light reloads during the break-in period mine not only failed to lock the slide but also was failing to extract and or chamber rounds. With full power ammo I had no problem whatsoever, including the hot Corbon 115gr +p 1350fps load.

If you can please let us know how things work after the full break-in period.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I think Kahrs are great......own several myself.......never known one to have problems...

If your having trouble with EVERY Kahr your shooting (as you stated) i would subjest you may be a limp wristed shooter.....and may need to stiffen up your grip

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Have had two PM9s and both were 100% reliable. Other people have had some problems. Kahrs seem to be a role of the dice. If you get a good one, you will love it. I would not pass any judgement until you have the prerequisite 200 break in rds through it and then at least another 50-100 rds of premium self defense ammo.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I've looked at the Kahr's and they're nice for a special purpose firearm.
Doesn't look like something meant to target shoot often.
To me the Glock 26 is perfection in balance...size, weight, capacity, cost, reliability, and shootability. In the sub-compact line, it has no equal!

Re: Kahr CW9
 

You could be limp-wristing and causing the gun to short stroke, which prevents it from locking back when empty. It's also possible that you are resting your thumb on top of the slide stop and not letting it engage after the last round. I often have this problem because I mostly shoot 1911s and keep my thumb on the thumb safety. When shooting guns without thumb safety, my thumb seems to want to rest itself atop the slide stop, often preventing it from working.


BS. Kahrs are not any worse (or much better for that matter) than most other guns. Most of them are smaller models, and small framed guns usually require more effort to shoot correctly (firmer grip, etc.). My two PM9s work 100% with both ball and JHP ammo as long as I do my part.

Can't deep-conceal G26 very well, and that's where Kahrs win hands down. Try carrying G26 in a front pants pocket or on your ankle... I regularly carry my PM9 both ways (whenever I can't carry my 1911) without much effort.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

EE, I agree that the Kahr is not a target/plinking pistol. While it's size lends itself to be a good, solid self defense/deep concealment pistol, this small size unfortunately does not bode well for longevity. The smaller, lighter parts that make up the Kahr just can not handle tens of thousands of rounds like many other larger designs. For deep concealment or as a BUG however, it is one of the best options out there.

C&L, I see your point and while a Kahr certainly conceals easier than a G26, I have carried (before I sold all of my guns) both a G27 (identical size to G26) and a G29 (almost identical to a G19 but with a shorter grip) successfully in a pocket holster for almost ten years. As with carrying most concealed pistols, wardrobe, wardrobe, wardrobe. Bx3

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Well, I finished the "shoot-in" rounds and the second 100 rounds shot in groups of 5 had the slide fail to lock back about 50% of the time. Up from around 3% in the first 100 rounds.

I have called Kahr and they are solid customer service types. They suggested a new slide lock spring and a new follower. I order a new magazine and they are sending the spring and 2 followeres along with it.

Having read the great replies above just now, I am betting on the thumb on the slide release in the pilot error category. I thought if I was limp wristing, it would happen thoughout the shooting process and not just after the last shot.

One shooter on another forum told me to shoot full magazines since he had a problem that only arose at that time. Something called nose diving.

From the Kahr Club on Glock Talk a comment from mitchg233.


"The problem was when the mag was full, the first round would hit the bottom of the feed ramp and jam there. The nose of the second round tends to push on the first round as it slides by and lowers the nose of the first round, causing it to hit lower on the ramp. My pistol was cured, in large part, by the installation of a new mag release and spring, which kept the mag more firmly in the gun and caused the first round to meet the ramp slightly higher......at least that is my guess. Anyway, break in the gun as you would use it. It is a 7+1 pistol and should be reliable that way. My whole story is in another recent thread about CW9's. Good luck. They are good pistols that are worth a little tinkering. "

Re: Kahr CW9
 

You could still be short-stoking it. The reason you notice it only on the last round is because the slide still travels far enough back to strip the next round from the magazine, but not enough to engage the slide lock.

I agree that with the right holster, belt and cover garments you can conceal just about anything anywhere you want. You body type and physic also plays a big role. I have no problem carrying a full size or Commander 1911 IWB with just shorts and T-shirt 8 months out of a year. But the smaller (thinner) the gun the less effort it takes to conceal it.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Is short-stoking the same as limp-wristing???

Re: Kahr CW9
 

No, but limp-wristing could cause short-stroking. :smile:

In semi-autos, the slide is designed to cycle back after firing a round to strip the next round from the magazine and feed it into the chamber. Each gun has its own "cycle point" so to speak - the point to which the slide has to travel to during its rearward motion before stopping and returning to battery. There are a number of factors that could prevent the slide from cycling all the way back to that designed point, which is called "short-stroking". Depending on how severe the short-stoking is, it could lead to problems such as FTF (failure to feed), failure to eject (FTE), failure to lock back, etc. Limp wristing is the failure of the shooter to control the gun during recoil (or not gripping the gun firmly enough) and letting it bounce around.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Unfortunately none of the respected semi-auto handgun manufacturers make a compact handgun. They chop off the barrel and shorten the grips,magazines and call them compact but they're not very concealable. Kahr fills a market void. CONCEALABILITY means THIN! Who else makes a light, servicable concealable 9MM besides the expensive Rohrbach?

Kahrs have some idiosincracies, yes.

1) You need to use the slide release when chambering a round.
2) You need a set of spare springs if you plan to shoot thousands of rounds.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Bx3....no offense but have you ever held a Kahr PM9 or comperable model?

You talk about it having "lighter" parts etc etc......i suspect you may be confusing the Kahr with something like a Keltek....a Kahr is NOT a light gun for its size with light parts

Re: Kahr CW9
 

very nice machining on the kahrs, very nice.

on my long term purchase list.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Kahr PM9 feels solid like a real gun and shoots very well. Very accurate for such a small package.

I do have a problem with mine, however. The first round in the top of the magazine must be oriented upward at a fairly steep angle to correctly feed. If it is in that steep angle, everything is just lovely. However, it is quite easy to accidentally reorient the first round to a lesser angle while manipulating the magazine, or performing a tactical reload. Sometimes simply removing the magazine and placing it back into the gun will cause this top round to be more parallel with the slide. When this happens, I'm looking at a jam-fest. It will not feed.

This problem was quite noticable during live training in some classes I am taking.

Love the little gun, but I have had to demote it from both primary carry and primary training weapon.

But, when it feeds and shoots, it shoots great. Can not recommend, however.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

If your PM9 is an older model, there was a recall a few years ago for bad feed ramps. My first PM9 was sent back for it and they re-machined the feed ramp and polished it. I never had problems with it before I sent it back, but I thought I would just in case. Check your SN and see if your PM9 is on the list.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

No offense taken. I have owned two PM9s, so yes I have held them. When/if you go over 10k rounds without any breakages let me know. Are there other full sized pistols that break things before10k? Sure there are. Is the Kahr built as tough as say a Glock or XD? No way. This is not a ding on the Kahr, it is just a mechanical reality/trade off when making a pistol as small as physically possible.

VPW, I forgot to mention because it is second nature to me now but I down load all of my magazines (pistol and rifle before I sold them all) by about 10%. This works out to roughly 1 round for anything under 20rds and two rds for anything 20 rds and over. I have been shooting since I was four and I have shot with some of the best tier one military guys in the country and this is a technique for many of them. While I am not going to argue with anyone here, I believe that this is one of the factors why all of my firearms (before I sold them) were generally 100% reliable.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Man! Non stop learning here. By down load I am assuming you mean that if a magazine holds 8 you load 7?

This has pretty much been my accidental approach due to arthritic hands. Any plinking rounds over 5 in the CW9 weren't worth the effort nor the discomfort.

I will take a different approach if this become a carry gun.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

That is correct. Like I said, any magazine below 20rds I down load by 1rd (G17 for example) while anything 20 rds or over is 2rds (M14, AR15 ect). This does a couple of positive things.

First when you are loading a magazine under a closed slide/bolt, this will allow for an easier more positive lock up for the magazine. This will also reduce slide/bolt friction and allow the first round to be stripped from the magazine much easier. Both of these instances are especially applicable when doing tactical reloads.

Secondly, one less round greatly reduces exponential pressure on the magazine spring which does help prevent spring set.

Both of these issues have recently been addressed in the Army's Rifle Marksmanship Manual FM 3-22.9.

Lets face it, most magazine capacity listings are designated because that is the absolute maximum amount of rounds that a magazine can hold. This means that the follower and the spring are literally smashed into the base plate without a millimeter to spare.

Some newer magazines are starting to come out that actually address this problem by allowing for some breathing room between the internal magazine components (about what you would have if you just downloaded by 10%).

These new magazines will be true capacity magazines and you will be able to load them to their full claim without sacrificing reliability. Tango Down is one company that is making these true capacity magazines for ARs. :coolbeer: Bx3

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Hi, gpond, haven't seen you around!
Have you tried using the slide release to slam the first round in? Doing it by hand causes it to jam and this is a well known Kahr idiosyncracy.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I am not a Kahr fanatic but to me it fits its CCW purpose perfectly i have many other CCW guns and the Kahr seems to do it the best for me.....my second choice is a RugerSP101 357/38sp but its much harder to conceal

These are intresting conversations and things for me to watch....todate though i have had no issues of any sort with mine....no feed issues...no breakages..i regularly hand cycle the action with no issues...i am probably around 1k rounds

I do carry a clip loaded with shot shells for snake killin and such and mine will even feed shot shells

I am intrested in obtaining some extra clips anyone know a low cost source?

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I think Kahr was the only real source when I picked up some extra magazines a few years back. If you are going to go through them you may as well pick up an extra recoil spring assembly as I believe they recommend a replacement every few thousand rounds or so. They actually didn't charge me for the springs when I ordered the extra mags. They also have a redesigned (as of last year) magazine latch. More metal, less plastic. They also sent that out for free. I have been very impressed with their customer care. Bx3

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Howdy hoarder,

Yes, I understand that and have experimented both ways.

Quickly, here is how to see the problem I'm having (if your Kahr behaves like mine does).

1) With empty gun, insert loaded magazine.
2) Chamber a round using your prefered method.
3) Fire that round. Alternately, you can simulate the firing of a round by pulling back the slide ejecting that round, and then releasing the slide thus chambering a new round. (In my experience it doesn't matter much which you do for this test.)
4) Remove the magazine.
5) Examine the top round in the magazine.

In the case of my weapon, you will without fail, find that the topmost round in the magazine has been pushed forward in the magazine. It is not deeply seated, but is in a more forward position. Notice that with your finger you can rock the round upwards and downwards with extreme ease.

As long as the round is rocked upwards, you will have no problem. If you rock it downwards (eliminating the upward slope) and place it back in the weapon, you will have a jam situation on your next round. Sometimes simply placing the magazine back in the weapon is enough to rock it downwards and cause the problem. Like if you were doing a tactical reload (reloading when you didn't absolutely need to).

Not to beat a dead horse, but there is my problem. Would be interested if others can create this problem.

If you push the topmost round back into the magazine as if you had just loaded it by hand, there is no problem. If you don't, in my case, there is no telling, but likely you get a jam.

Sorry if this is a hijack. I like the gun except for this "feature" on mine.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Bingo! Had similar issues with mine when cambering the first round.. To put it simply I could not trust the gun 100% with my life, SO.. I sold it and bought a Rohrbaugh R9s and never looked back.. Best decision I could have made with regard to pocket pistols.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Has the gun ever malfunctioned when you didn't remove the magazine half way through a firing string? If not, I would consider this a non event as it is mostly self induced.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Yes, it has.

I very much disagree that the situation I described is a non-event, however. Within the relative safety of a shooting range it is a non-event. That is not what I'm training for.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

My point being that if there are no malfunctions unless you take the magazine out midway through firing a string, rock the bullet downwards and then re-insert it, that there is no event other than a self induced one. If however the gun is malfunctioning without doing the above, then yes that is an event and not a good one. Have you tried multiple magazines?

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I will have to check that out.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Just to give you heads up before you get too excited - you can buy 3 Kahrs for the price of 1 R9s.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

ouch the kahrs are not really cheap to begin with.

maybe should just buy 5 kelteks and throw them at some one.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Not sure where you get your pricing information... Kahr PM9 is priced from $650 to $750.. Rohrbaugh R9S are about 1000 to 1100 and is the smallest and most reliable pocket 9mm handgun on the market. Sure your gonna pay a little more, but I think it's worth it.

Top Left: PM9
Bottom Left: Rohrbaugh R9


http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/.../guns/F219.JPG

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Brand new PM9 can be easily found for low $600s. A gently used pre-owned PM9s can be found for $450-500 with some patience. Other Kahrs can be had for even less. Rohrbaughs sell for $1100-$1200 (be it new or used), that is if you can even find one for sale. Last I looked at them, the waiting list to get one was over a year.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

I have to admit I haven't looked for availability lately, but I bought mine at a gun show here in town and was out the door (no waiting) tax included for under 1100 this was Sept. or October of last year.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Gotta love the Rohrbaugh. I take it that it is 100% reliable and that you love it?

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Mine has fired 100% from right out of the box.. I have no complaints.

Re: Kahr CW9
 

my mags do the same thing (the top round sliding partially out and being at a higher angle)

I have on a very rare occasion removed a partially expended mag and reinserted it after firing and continued firing and experienced no issues

I have also more often removed a partially expended mag rocked the top cartrige down and reinserted it and continued fireing and had no issues
(typically when i do this i reseat the cartrige fully back in the clip and tap the clip to make sure all cartriges are seated as a habit)

95% of the time if i do a tactical reload i dont go back to the same mag without reloading it to full capacity first

Next time i get a chance i will try to see if i can get my pm9 to jamb the way you describe more specificly what type of jamb do you get ...failure to feed....stove pipe....failure to fire...???

Re: Kahr CW9
 

Failure to Feed, TTAZZMAN, as the round doesn't make it up the ramp.